Steve Benen at C&L postedabout the Florida decision and caused me to think about religion and why they are so unfaltering in their objections to the word/idea: “evolution”. The south is so backwards, that many of us think that Mr Preacher Man understands more about biology and how life “evolves” than those who have studied and immersed themselves in a life’s pursuit of truth (much like they claim to be doing with Christianity).
Evolutionists aren’t necessarily anti-religion, but when people make obvious, ignorant statements about “beliefs” as opposed to actual scientific FACT (for no one can honestly claim anything within the Bible as “FACT”, with the ability to withstand the scrutiny of scientific evaluation) it really makes the Christian opponent seem idiotic.
As Steve posts, Florida has decided that schools can now use the terminology, “Scientific theory of evolution”, for the first time, in their state science standards.
How…. 21st century of them.
Florida’s State Board of Education has voted to use the term “scientific theory of evolution” in new science standards, the first time the word “evolution” has been included.
Florida’s current standards require the teaching of evolution using code words like “change over time.”
Adding the term “scientific theory” before the term “evolution” was a modified proposal at least one board member called a compromise, not standards proposed originally to the committee. The option to include “scientific theory” was made late last week.
The board narrowly passed the proposed change, voting 4-3, after more than an hour of public comment and additional discussion by the board.
Now, just how much public comment and additional discussion does it take to appease the ignorant religious with nothing but a book, over hundreds of years of scientific evaluation and “theory”? Why does one have to explain (over and over and over) what “theory” is in the scientific community?
They say, “Evolution is ONLY a theory!”
Steve answers by quoting the WSJ’s James Q. Wilson from here:
People use “theory” when they mean a guess, a faith or an idea. A theory in this sense does not state a testable relationship between two or more things. It is a belief that may be true, but its truth cannot be tested by scientific inquiry. One such theory is that God exists and intervenes in human life in ways that affect the outcome of human life. God may well exist, and He may well help people overcome problems or even (if we believe certain athletes) determine the outcome of a game. But that theory cannot be tested. There is no way anyone has found that we can prove empirically that God exists or that His action has affected some human life. If such a test could be found, the scientist who executed it would overnight become a hero.
Evolution is a theory in the scientific sense. It has been tested repeatedly by examining the remains of now-extinct creatures to see how one species has emerged to replace another. Even today we can see some kinds of evolution at work, as when scholars watch how birds on the Galapagos Islands adapt their beak size from generation to generation to the food supplies they encounter.
“Theory” in religion and “scientific theory” aren’t even in the same scope of intelligent context/evaluation. Theory in religion cannot even be tested scientifically, because all you have is the book and “belief” that the book is truth. But in science, one can test, over and over again, their ideas. They can accumulate scientific fact to evaluate and compare. It is testable… provable… within scrutiny in evaluation.
In religion all you can observe is the thoughts of humans played out in their actions based on words from a book and some internal guiding process. This can never prove/disprove God or Christianity or any other religion.
So, I find it the height of ignorance that we have leaders in congress and “high places” who put more credence in their unprovable “beliefs” over scientific fact, tested over and over to provide us with the scientific theory.
It boils down to this, believers in the Bible (or any other religious text) feel like “theories” are just ideas some one craps out of their head, perhaps while even sitting on the shitter. Theories to these folks are no more than a dream or guess or a vain imagination.
But when they try to provide their “proof” of God, their ”theory” is even far less instructive and edifying, because all they have is the book (you choose which of the many hundreds of versions is the RIGHT one) and their personal story (which is never objective or helpful, as far as theories go).
Hence, altho I am a “believer”, it is my belief and I can not honestly tell you it is truth beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is because of my personal experiences and life learned lessons. I can not scientifically prove anything. Nor do I want to try to convince you one way or the other.
But when it comes to real world science, believers must be prepared to drop their idiotic, non-supportable religious “beliefs” as if they were truth for all men and embrace what science can prove with its “scientific theories”, which are provable.
One has to take a big nasty dummy pill to swallow the whole Christianity thing, when making it more “real” than science. But, somehow, the south especially, has taken the entire brain dead potion than the rest of the country, if you want all thinking people to go along with you… much like the Taliban insists in the ME.
Don’t expect this thinking man to just go along with those who are obviously lost, just because they use scare tactics to try to keep us (and successfully with most of you) in line.
Wake Up, Rednecks!
… Agree with most of what you have ranted …
Religion has been twisted & turned to fit the individual who desires such an experience, unfortunately twisted to support motives for ‘self gain’ & ‘self worth’. The church history of any religion will abundantly support this statement. More people need to use more of their brain power to skillfully inquire about what they have been spoon fed and traditionally followed. Religion & politics are old friends from our ancestors – know matter where this statement may find you.
BUT – there is a real transformation of the heart that no one can prove, disprove, quantify, or accurately decipher with the intellect & all the vast knowledge available to mankind …
… when God our Creator does interfere, intervene, challenge, abort, debate — in the presence of any individual.
These individuals are ‘changed’ from that moment on. Does mankind use this ‘awakening’ always for the good of mankind. We all know that answer is no. But, nevertheless a ‘change’ will always prove itself out with time. Everything returns to its creative source. This is scientific … so hence any God Moment will also.
You presenting such great rants, facts, and superstitions …. are in fact helping the whole process of mankind realize that God is God. Whether we believe or disbelieve. Do we actually assume just because we don’t believe, it makes God any less or any more?
No, I dare say no again.
Posted by C.L. Mareydt | February 23, 2008, 9:23 amWow. Excellent!
I think that much of what I believe can only really be “proven” to me. Even such a change as you suggest is only “proven” out in my actions witnessed. The change may or may not be caused by God or God’s interaction/causation, but I don’t think it can be proven one way or the other.
However, I know that such a thing has happened within me (and I have shared it with a few people). I know that something inside changed. Deeply. To a radically different person, actually.
Your last sentience is wonderful, because IF God truly is wholly encompassing of this world (Omniscient, Omnipotent, etc) then He/She/It MUST be bigger than anything we can imagine or express with any sensibility.
Posted by buelahman | February 23, 2008, 11:07 amNot necessarily. I’ve always been somewhat confused by the asssumption that, should a Christian-type god exist, it would have to be something totally beyond our understanding. But why? Science has allowed us to penetrate deeply into some of the greatest mytseries of the Universe, and we increasingly find that a lot of aspects of the Universe are actually fairly simple. They might be counter-intuitive and difficult to learn about (for example, much of advanced physics), but in the end the forces and principles that govern the Universe are arguably far more simple than a living, breathing life form.
I don’t believe in any god, but I think a lot of people who do might be getting it backwards. Nowhere in the Universe do we see something extraordinarily complex give rise to something much simpler; instead, we see simple processes give rise to extraordinary complexity. Evolution is a prime example of this.
Why couldn’t God be something simple, some fundamental ‘aspect’ of the Universe, rather than an all-encompassing, omnipotent, sentient entity that our feeble minds can never hope to understand? I’m talking about a Deistic god here, a type of deity that I find far more likely than the being described by many mainstream religions.
Posted by lifelessonsfromwriting | February 23, 2008, 12:44 pmWhy couldn’t God be something simple, some fundamental ‘aspect’ of the Universe, rather than an all-encompassing, omnipotent, sentient entity that our feeble minds can never hope to understand? I’m talking about a Deistic god here, a type of deity that I find far more likely than the being described by many mainstream religions.
A “simple, fundamental aspect”? What could be more fundamental than something that makes up everything? Which IS the Diest POV, isn’t it? (which btw, is more my “belief” system).
I have a friend who can correlate his belief with the aspect that God is carbon and the basis of all life.
I dunno… think that is weird, but who am I?
Maybe God isn’t controlling the world, as the Bible (and its henchmen) insist within their myriad of ways, but maybe he/she/it/whatever is the very basis of it all?
Or maybe there is nothing?
I do know that all these idiotic religious-fear ideas usually end up killing and controlling the masses for power, glory and money. No matter what they SAY is the reason, most times it ends up nasty (as is virtually my every experience with religion).
Thanks…
Posted by buelahman | February 23, 2008, 1:18 pmI think the reason why a Deistic god isn’t satisfying for a lot of people is because it’s too impersonal. Religious people will very often talk about their ‘personal relationship with God’, and it’s clear that this means a lot to them.
It would be quite difficult for most people to talk about their ‘personal relationship with carbon’…at least, if they wanted to do it with a straight face
Your blog is very interesting. I’ll be having a mooch around later tonight.
Posted by lifelessonsfromwriting | February 23, 2008, 1:31 pmI should have said “hydrogen”, instead of carbon.
Posted by buelahman | February 23, 2008, 1:34 pmOops… sorry, a cross post.
Thanks for the comments about the blog. Just an old redneck spouting off.
I have used the phraseology “personal relationship with God”, myself, without really understanding what it meant (even to me, honestly). There is a language all its own that is indoctrinated among followers, especially leadership (which I also once was) around evangelicals and “Fundamentalists” (which usually means how far from reality and logic one can go).
I have been called all of these, but never accepted any of it.
Come back and stay awhile…
Posted by buelahman | February 23, 2008, 1:38 pmI come across these kind of articles about religion, often tied in with evolution etc, and how backwards Christians are about the whole situation quite often. This has always been a bizarre phenomenon in the West, as evolution does not prove that God doesn’t exist, and evolution itself is a shaky theory that has more holes in it than swiss cheese. I grew up somewhat an atheist, not understanding until I turned 20 that there really is a God who loves us and that gave his Son to die for us. Wow, now was that really so hard? Now that didn’t hurt a bit. I used to think it would hurt a lot, actually – to be held accountable by an almighty God was scary as hell.
What it comes down to is the R word. Religion. I am a Christian, a Born Again if you will, and I have to say that Religion is one of the worst things to ever happen to believers. Over the years, centuries, it has become twisted to suit our own needs, our own hateful, prideful ways. It’s been used to abuse people, make money, scam others and worse. I will never deny this, but as a Christian you have to see that religion is only the sick man made side of a relationship with God. God’s side is great, the provider, the Father. Our side is human, and ugly and full of mistakes. There’s nothing wrong with believing in God, is there? The Bible teaches us many truths, (most of which we ignore today for some reason…hmm) like having solid families with two loving parents who are married, for example. Can anyone dispute that this is wrong? We’ve moved away from this and we see a social breakdown. The bible says not to steal, not to commit adultery, not to murder…can anyone really say these things are backwards, when the entire USA was founded on these simple truths. Why are these things wrong?
Your anger is directed towards “ignorant southerners” to paraphrase, and maybe they really are ignorant; they sure have had plenty of problems in the south, like racism, the KKK, and social problems. But you have to see that this is in spite of their faith, not because of it. I know that I make mistakes everyday, and sometimes I really blow it, and YES, I call myself a Christian. Now get together a bunch of people in a church and a denomination and you have a common belief, yes, but you also get a whole lot of human beings who will screw up at every turn. When it comes down to it, we’re all forgiven, Jesus died for every single one of us ever to be born, no exceptions. Not One. The only difference is, some of us have realised this, while others are still in darkness. Yes, I repeat, those of us who realise are no more smarter, no less capable of making a complete mess of things. We just have accepted that God is there and we’re cool with that. I love my relationship with Jesus. I am a normal, functioning, thinking and rationalizing twenty something.
When it comes down to it, evolution is a ridiculous catalyst for atheists and believers to fight over, ignoring the real points. Who really cares, when it comes down to it? Atheists want to believe a tornado blew through a junk yard and assembled a 747 aircraft. Christians want to believe that someone created that 747. You can call us stupid, backward and ignorant all you want, but in the end we’re arguing over nothing. What we’re REALLY arguing about is the atheists denial. They’re comfortable not being accountable for their actions, and comfortable deluding themselves that if God doesn’t exist I can continue to live a selfish, self centered life with no consequences. This is a sad, sad mistake, my friends. I could argue that the process of coagulation could not have been formed by evolution (unless the first couple of thousand people to cut themselves or scrape a knee simply bled to death before evolution gave us coagulation) or I could say that the giraffe, with a complex system of blood valves in its neck simply had its head explode every time it lowered to drink before evolution kicked in and developed the valve system. I could argue that the human eyeball is like the mouse trap, irreducible in its complexity – take any component away and you simply have a useless orb. How would evolution put together something like that? Where are all the missing fossils in Darwin’s fossil record, in which he himself predicted would be found sometime AFTER he died, and indeed he said if it was not found his theory was wrong. Why haven’t all apes evolved? Why did thousands of new life-blueprints suddenly appear with no prior record or variation in the fossil record? On and on I could argue, wasting my breath and falling of deaf ears, because this is not what we’re arguing about.
I’m not stupid, or backward, I am a person, who believes in God. I am capable of making rational decisions, and I don’t enjoy the Bush Administration or right wing politics. Are all arabs terrorists? Do all Asians know martial arts? Do all black people listen to hip hop and smoke weed? Are all Christians brain-washed? There’s no excuse for this kind of broad generalization. God cannot be mocked, but I certainly can be, and my faith definitely can. But I can handle that, because I remember my life before being a believer, and it was empty and full of despair. I just know I don’t want to live a day without my relationship with Jesus.
If you are “an old red neck just spouting off”, that’s okay too, you have a complete right to question the validity of Christianity. I think it’s a good thing! I also want to apologize if you’ve been hurt by religion, as people will always let you down. I just want to say Thanks, man.
God bless you, regardless of your belief, and thanks for the forum to voice opinions.
Posted by Mattob | February 23, 2008, 10:09 pmHi mattob,
You offer much…
I come across these kind of articles about religion, often tied in with evolution etc, and how backwards Christians are about the whole situation quite often. This has always been a bizarre phenomenon in the West, as evolution does not prove that God doesn’t exist, and evolution itself is a shaky theory that has more holes in it than swiss cheese. I grew up somewhat an atheist, not understanding until I turned 20 that there really is a God who loves us and that gave his Son to die for us. Wow, now was that really so hard? Now that didn’t hurt a bit. I used to think it would hurt a lot, actually – to be held accountable by an almighty God was scary as hell.
I didn’t say ignorant = backwards… you did. Nor did I claim that evolution disproves God. What happened to you at 20 that caused you to “understand there really is a God…”? Hard, depends on the answer to that last question. What does that understanding of God’s love have to do with being “hurt” by God’s accountability requirement?
What it comes down to is the R word. Religion.
We agree there.
The Bible teaches us many truths, (most of which we ignore today for some reason…hmm) like having solid families with two loving parents who are married, for example. Can anyone dispute that this is wrong? We’ve moved away from this and we see a social breakdown. The bible says not to steal, not to commit adultery, not to murder…can anyone really say these things are backwards, when the entire USA was founded on these simple truths. Why are these things wrong?
Because a Republic is not founded upon the few chpsen laws you mentioned. It was never intended to be. Besides, if you suggest that we adhere to a few of those Mosaic Laws without adhering to ALL of the 600+, then you are only picking and choosing your desires… not God’s. The Bible says that you will be guilty of failing at ALL of them. Would you begin stoning children, wives, slaves, etc? Put away that shrimp.
I suggest that you need to study more about the Mosaic Law before asking me to try to adhere to it. My bet is that you cannot (it is actually impossible, unless you are part of the Levitical Priesthood or know any).
Your anger is directed towards “ignorant southerners” to paraphrase, and maybe they really are ignorant; they sure have had plenty of problems in the south, like racism, the KKK, and social problems.
I believe my anger is directed at those who take advantage of the very ones they have kept ignorant. Ignorance is not the fault of southern people, JUST because they are southern (or redneck, for that matter). They are intentionally kept “dumbed down”, unless they find a way to step out of it (like I did). Believe me, I am not angry at my bro’s and sis’s.
When it comes down to it, evolution is a ridiculous catalyst for atheists and believers to fight over, ignoring the real points. Who really cares, when it comes down to it? Atheists want to believe a tornado blew through a junk yard and assembled a 747 aircraft.
Fight over? Of course not. More aptly, debate and education to help people realize the difference between scientific theory and religious belief. Who really cares? Almost every “normal, functioning, thinking and rationalizing” person I know. It is not rationalization to “not” care. I also don’t know a single atheist who claims what you write.
On and on I could argue, wasting my breath and falling of deaf ears, because this is not what we’re arguing about.
I didn’t want to C&P your long list, but in response, your ONLY “proof” that God exists is that Bible. I can take large amounts of time and energy to point out thousands of facts and substance that “prove” individual aspects of evolution… variations in animal and plant families, etc. One could take spacious amounts of area here showing you many aspects of evolution, yet all you have is the Bible.
This is my point. Not to bash Christians or rednecks, but to bash the ignorance and those you keep us that way.
Also, read through to find out WHY I call my kin “rednecks”. You are missing a key ingredient.
Posted by buelahman | February 23, 2008, 10:46 pmI’d just like to butt in here for a moment:
evolution itself is a shaky theory
No it’s not.
that has more holes in it than swiss cheese.
No it doesn’t.
This, and the fact that you use the infamous (with good reason) ‘tornado blowing through a scrapyard’ argument, is a pretty good sign that you’ve been grossly deceived about evolution. I won’t speculate on who might have fed you a pack of lies, but I have a pretty good idea. Please, read a book about evolution written by an actual evolutionary scientist. I suggest ‘Climbing Mount Improbable’ (just skip the part about spider webs; it’s incredibly boring).
Posted by lifelessonsfromwriting | February 24, 2008, 6:16 amYour “butting in” is welcome.
Thanks.
Great Book recommendation, btw.
Posted by buelahman | February 24, 2008, 8:47 amTell me that which one religion is right in this time according to ur knowledge.Be honest.
Posted by ABRAR ULLAH | January 13, 2011, 6:22 amAll organized religion is the scourge of mankind.
Posted by BuelahMan | January 13, 2011, 7:07 am