Where In The World Is Universal Healthcare? Panama

(Taken from the comments here, Kelso explains, AGAIN, exactly how the propaganda is nothing but lies and fear tactics)

Okey-dokey, let’s do this one more time, B’Man.

I live in a country with a Single-Payer system.  There is not one piece of American Anti-Single Payer propaganda that’s true.  All lies:

* “DEATH” PANELS: Not true. The elderly and chronically-ill are priority patients if anything.

* THE GOVERNMENT INTERFERES IN YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR DOCTOR: Not true.  The government’s roles are to pay medical personnel, set salary MINIMUMS which UNIONIZED doctors, nurses, support staff may protest and always settle through a collective bargaining process.

* DOCTORS AND NURSE ARE NOT ADAQUATELY COMPENSATED: Manure.  What Single-Payer does is merely make health-care essentially free for people.  That’s all.  They have no say in how hospitals run themselves other than providing courts through which people settle malpractice claims and the like.  There is PLENTY of salary competition among hospitals, for example, for the best thoracic surgeon, or the best post-natal nurse, or whatever.

* YOU HAVE NO PRIVACY: Lie.  You have more privacy because only Sheople ™ would allow a government more intrusive powers when they are the ones who put the government into power and a government is in charge of something. Yes.  I excuse you guys.  You can let the government walk all over you just the way you like.  When these systems were put into place in other countries, there were national referenda restricting government access to doctor patient and nurse patient records and files.

* YOU HAVE NO CHOICE OF DOCTOR.  Utter horseshit.  You can see a different doctor for each ailment as long as you can keep finding new ones in the Yellow Pages.

* IT’S “SOCIALISM“.  For people yes, for medical professionals, no.  Besides, there is not a capitalist self-governing nation on Earth that is purely “free-market” or purely “socialist.”  Every country is basically capitalist with some balance of the efficiency of the market economy with the social justice of collective-ownership (yes, including the USA)

* THE QUALITY OF CARE IS NOT UP TO USA STANDARDS. Please don’t tell me you believe this.  About half the doctors where I live have gone to the best medical schools in the US and Europe, our National University Medical School is top-shelf as are the medical throughout South America.

* YOU CAN’T HAVE PRIVATE INSURANCE FOR EXPERIMENTAL TECHNIQUES OR TO COVER TRANSPLANTS: Wrong.  The difference is that private insurers have a hard ceiling as to what the can charge you in premiums and may not — by law — deny anybody anything for pre-existing conditions. You’d get some crazily good Major Medical coverage for $200/month, without waiving your National Health at all

* LONG LINES: Wrong. No lines. And family doctors make house-calls.

* THIRD WORLD HOSPITALS: If you consider a brand-new branch of say Johns Hopkins University Hospital to be “third world,” you’re right.

* COMMUNIST BUDGET-BUSTING SOCIAL-PROGRAM FAVORING POOR OVER WORKING MAN: Manure. The budget here is in surplus.  Why? No wars of choice.  No bloated military apparatus.  No militarized police-prison state.

* THEY’LL RAISE MY TAXES: HR 676 will not raise your taxes. But here I pay 15% corporate.  Maximum 10% personal.  And 1% capital gains.  You can do an awful lot of good in an economy in which nobody has an incentive to cheat because no one wants to tinker with a good thing. Again, no wars and no Tax Bureaucracy and no nosy police state does wonders for a budget.

Venezuela, by the way, has less of its productive capacity in government hands than the USA does, and what it does have is actually collectively-owned by the people, as opposed to being for-profit entities for the benefit of the IRS and Federal Reserve.

The “socialist” government of Venezuela is far more fiscally and monetarily conservative than the governments of the United States have EVER been with the possible exceptions of Bush Sr’s last two years and Bill Clinton’s first two years.

10 thoughts on “Where In The World Is Universal Healthcare? Panama

  1. The problem I have with this, Kelso is speaking about what goes on where he lives. Not about what is and going on, and happen in America. I personally don’t and cant see health care in America being any better than it is now. Unfortunately I think it will get worse as a whole.

    You have to remember I’m one of those that really never had insurance. Thank the man upstairs that nothing major has ever happened to me. I can tell you that when you have no insurance, you have no choice on the doctor who treats you. Kind of like a court appointed attorney. You get what you pay for. You also have no choice on the care you receive. You either take whats offered or get none.

    Let me tell you what happens when you have no insurance. First you go to the local emergency room. You fill out 10 pages of paperwork. You sit there in a crowded waiting room for a minimum of 3 hours with other sick people. Once you finally see the doctor after sitting in the actual emergency room for another hour they send you to x-ray. After that you sit for another hour. When they finally see you again, they tell you your jaw is not broken. They offer no relief for pain except to say put some ice on it. Days later you get a bill for about $400.00.

    A week goes by and your jaw is still messed up. So you go to a different hospital ER. Thats if your lucky to have another hospital in your area. You go through the same thing again. Except this time they tell you your jaw is broken in two places. They give you a shot for pain and a prescription for more until surgery. They schedule you for surgery in the following days. They wire your jaw shut and it remains this way for 3 and a half months. In the meantime you get the bill in the mail. Over $10,000.00. Then they charge you another $200.00 to remove the wires from your mouth. If you have an injury that requires rehabilitation[which has also happened to me] you will sit all day waiting for them to exercise your joint and muscle. After one visit like this, you don’t go back because you cant sit there for 8 hours for 30 minutes worth of rehab. Which they send you a bill for about $175.00.

    So once everyone is afforded free health care, the lines, and the wait will be longer. The service couldn’t get much worse than what I described above. The only difference is, I’m sure the cost will rise. If things are better or get better, so be it. It doesn’t really matter to me either way. Ive never had insurance and used it, or lost it to find myself sitting with the masses of poor people. And thats what all this is really about. All the people that lost their jobs along with their insurance, now having to wait with poor people to see a doctor. It the difference between shopping at wally world or the dollar store. And some people will never shop at or be seen at the dollar store. Some truth hurts.


    • Ed,

      Are you telling me that if you were to cut out the insurance companies and then change our system to a single payer, like and improved upon many dozens of other countries in the world that your, my, everyone’s care wouldn’t get better?

      No offense, but my insurance rates are high to take up the slack of those that end up in the ER and can’t pay for it. But, my playing the insurance game also broke me.

      Care would improve substantially in most every regard, if we would take the blood suckers out of the game, put every person in the same poor and have a Medicare for all.

      I guarantee you that improvement is the only outcome.

      If everyone got free healthcare, there would be a need for more primary care doctors and less specialty (which is what rapes us from the Dr’s perspective).


      • I didn’t say that, and no offense taken or meant. I cant see how it could be any better than it is now. Once everyone has health care, the hospitals and doc. offices will be overloaded. They will be run like a fast food joint. Get’em in and get’em out.

        Your right about the need for care givers. It might come to a reasonable level of patient, doctor in your child’s lifetime, which would be a good thing, but not ours or 20 somethings.

        I feel you on paying the way for others. Been doing it all my life while also paying my way. If you read earlier about those bills I get when I visit the doc; I pay and have payed it all out of pocket. I’m not one of those you, I, everyone else has been paying for.

        I had company issued insurance 3 times in my life. Payed all those premiums never used it but 1 time. At that time it was in the small print and I was lied too; we don’t cover eye exams or glasses.

        Heres another problem I have with single payer. Like I said earlier, I pay as I go. With the single payer plan, I will be ‘forced’ to carry government issued insurance, like the insurance I cant afford at this time, which like in the past I will never use. But being forced to pay for something, you can bet your ass I will use it and so will the other 45 million[low number for a population of 300 million] that currently have no insurance.

        I mentioned it before; I really doesn’t matter to me. Either way I’m still screwed.

        What my comment above was about, was Kelso comparing where he lives, a country that has a population far below just like all the others that have a plan similar to single payer, the population of the U.S.; and saying how in America it would be like it is in those countries. I’m sure it works out just fine for a country with a population below 100 million. I don’t think so for the U.S..


        • Ed,

          It appears that you do not understand what single payer healthcare is.

          Just taking back the money that many of us spend on the current inferior rip-off middle man plans is enough to pay for the ones that are uncovered now. Close down a base or two and it is all paid.

          Here is where we differ the most, it appears. You consider health care some sort of “extra” and not a right for people in this country. I see it as a right of every person.

          We have become the only industrialized nation in the world that doesn’t have it, yet spend twice as much as everyone else and still have people like you who are uncovered and one terrible illness away from devastation (and causing my current insurance premiums to go up).

          Single payer is the only way. Doing nothing will not work. It sounds like you prefer the status quo and I believe that is a huge mistake.

          Oh and the number of people have absolutely nothing to do with it. Efficiency can be found in the single payer system which would pay for a 1/3 more without changing a thing except getting rid of the middle man. More primary doctors would be needed, but that is a good thing and perhaps influence enough for a kid to want to become a doctor.

          Workerman’s Comp disappears. Lawsuits would be kept at a minimum.


        • I understand single payer very well.

          Ah ha…thats the problem, you feel ripped off of all that money the man has taken from you for nothing.

          “You consider health care some sort of “extra” and not a right for people in this country. I see it as a right of every person.”

          So what your saying is health care is a right ? Well were do you draw the line ? Some people think food and shelter are a right, but you don’t favor welfare very much; do you?

          How is a working population of what 100 million? supposed to pay for everyone let alone all the low life’s out there. Oh thats right, shut a few military bases down. Not gonna happen, Were a war economy. I do believe the size of the population will matter. Especially the unemployed none tax paying, drug dealing none paying into single payer health care, already disabled none paying. already on welfare and will never get off, illegal alien none paying part. Thats my biggest problem with this whole issue. I don’t know about you, but I don’t like the idea of paying for all these peoples health care. But if the bill is passed, I will have too.

          I guess the problem here is, though we agree on many issues, we are from a different side of the track. One where you’ve had health care, and the other didn’t. But like I’ve said, it doesn’t matter to me. All I can say is if it bill does pass, welcome to my world of health care. You may think you like it now while it’s all on paper, but once installed I can guarantee you will not.

          Hey I really don’t have a problem with it as nothing will change for me except I will have to pay for government issued health care insurance and other folks too. Just like I currently do.

          Besides little peons cant fight the man and win. Even if more were against this bill than for, if they want to pass it they will regardless.



  2. Ed,

    Yes, I believe that healthcare is a right. If someone is sick, they need healing. Money or ability to pay should have nothing to do with it. I’m sorta “Jesus-like” in that respect. And the same goes for housing and food and helping a person make a way in this world set up against them.

    I find it odd that you so casually blow off the MIC quotient. “We’re a war economy”.

    This is of huge importance. We spend more than the rest of the world combined in military, much unneeded and actually a danger to our wellbeing here in the USA. But the truth is that we could downsize our military and still be the strongest in the world, and STILL pay for everyone’s healthcare in this country.

    I find the priority of that mindset strange. That it is acceptable to kill and maim and displace millions, yet we can’t take care of our own. Odd.

    Single Payer would put every man, woman and child in the same risk pool, Ed. It would lower the cost of care by large amounts. Taking out the profit center is the answer.

    It is also the way the early Christians took care of each other (read Acts).

    And, btw, I have lived on both sides of the tracks. I have been dirt poor and handsomely secure. Right now I am right in the middle.

    And I still think we should all pitch in together to take care of each other.

    Call me crazy.


    • Your not crazy, But I never said I agree with the fact that the US is a war economy. It’s just a fact that is what drives the economy, and nothing I nor you can do will change that fact.

      You cant bring back the ways of the old book. Times have changed and its a dog eat dog world.

      What we have here is a failure. You are pro single payer and I’m not. I will agree that we can disagree. It has nothing to do with my beliefs or what kind of a person you think I am. Truthfully, Ive always help those less fortunate than myself. And I’ll lend a helping hand to those that help themselves. I am a very rich man in the eyes of God.


  3. Oh Jesus Fucking Christ! These goddamn people with the damn not-with-my-money and I’m-being-forced-and-I-want-my-country-back bullshit are the same ones who if they lose their jobs will be pissing and moaning when they get diagnosed with cancer, the wife finds out she’s knocked up and the 4 other kids need braces or surgery, or God forbid the family is in a serious auto accident with serious to critical injuries. Then it’s not so smart to not be covered and guess who will pay for that under the current system?


  4. And the damn Rethuglicans and their faux Christianity. Oh, I have money, so screw my fellow man. I don’t care if they die! My God made sure I have money, health, etc. and even though my Bible says help the poor and weak, well the hell with them! Don’t ever tell me these people are Christians because they are the typical Republican mindset of I’ve got mine so fuck you! Just wait. In this world you won’t always be so lucky and blessed.


  5. Oh, and I have a better idea for those who don’t want to see the poor have the same health coverage benefits as the rich or the selfish: Gas chambers for those who can’t pay for their health care. Since Republican thinking is Not-with-my-money-you-don’t-but-I’ll-pray-for-you, well just pay a fee to pay for chamber upkeep, fuel and the poison. Hey, handicapped and ill people went to their death this way in Germany and Hitler didn’t want unhealthy people around. Remember, Hitler was supposedly religious man, but with a twisted Christianity that eschewed science and made their own history. Sound familiar, Texas?!


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